Two things happened last night that I'd like to respond to.
Here's the set-up: I was at an enrichment activity--okay first, for those of you who don't know, "Enrichment" is the short version for "Family, Home and Personal Enrichment" which is the title for activities put on for the women in our congregation. I'm the supervisor over it sort of, so I go to most of them. Anyway, last night was a social for the women at church, just get to know you games and stuff sans kids, which was really fun and lots of women showed up. We mingled and had food and also brought an item to represent something about us, anything, and we tried to guess who it belonged to.
First thing:
Am I pregnant? No, I am not. But someone asked me if I was last night, so to save the rest of you the trouble of wondering if that pooch is harvesting something or just pudge, the latter would be the right answer.
After months of working like crazy to lose the baby fat and being thrilled to surpass my goal weight, I still have a pooch that doesn't just look like fat, it looks like I'm 3 months pregnant--no joke. I'd much rather have 10 pounds spread out over my body than to look like I'm in the early stages of pregnancy. And please don't say, "Oh no you don't look pregnant" because most of you don't live here and can't see just how it looks with the way my shirt hangs, because I really do. However, I will welcome any stories like mine if you are so lucky to have them:).
It didn't help that I was eating a brownie dipped in a cream cheese and marshmello dip when she asked.
Second thing:
For my item, I brought a painting I did in NYC where I took a class in the ghetto part of Chinatown and learned nothing about painting but plenty about other things and also the book, "Feminine Mystique." I went through a feminist stage in high school and being pre-internet (or at least before it was well travelled), I had to special order it through our local book store.
One of my feminist friends (at least I think she would call herself this) leaned over and said, "Oh! So you've reformed your ways!" I think she was teasing, but we've disagreed on, or rather misunderstood each other, on different women's issues before. This comment ate at me all night (which I would love your thoughts if you're reading this friend!) because I wondered what she thought I believed in or stood for in the ways of women's issues and responsibilities and roles.
The game was quickly moving and it was on to the next person, so I just said something about how reading the book changed some of my views. I'd like to explain those a little more in a later post because I don't think I can do justice to them right now since I need to get off and go for a jog, but it made me think of women's roles and feminism and what it means.
It took some time to realize that I wasn't truly a feminist, or maybe I was, but I didn't really understand feminism in the way that I do now. I realize that the term means different things to different people, so that's what I want to know from you.
Q: What does feminism mean to you?
Q: How would you describe a feminist?
Q: Is feminism in practice the same as it is by definition?
Q: Do you consider yourself a feminist?
Q: Has anyone ever mistaken you to be pregnant when you weren't?
15 comments:
Ok. First off, I would LOVE to look as good as you do! Second, to answer some questions you asked:
A: Feminism is simply a movement that brought about great changes in society that allows me to be the person I am without getting into trouble - legal trouble, anyway.
A: I think feminism has morphed into something strange, or maybe I am two-sided about this, but I would describe a feminist as anti-feminine, somewhat elitist, and annoying.
A: I don't think I'm qualified to answer this. I don't have any experience that I know of. My experience is limited to me getting into tiny tiffs with Steve about female athletes. He says girls can't play ball, or something like that.
A: No, I do not consider myself a feminist.
A: Nobody has come up to me and asked if I was pregnant.
Whew, Afton! A lofty request for comments! BTW, saw you and the fam running (so fast) today. Was at the park sweating like crazy!!! You look fantastic--I would see you and think: "Wow, she's definitely a runner". Certainly not, "wow, she looks like she's in her second trimester."
I used to think I was a feminist. Read lots of books that I don't remember, including Friedan. To me, feminism in it's most basic sense is all about equal rights and opportunities. These days the term kind of makes me bristle because I feel like today's "feminists" downplay the importance of motherhood and a mother's involvement in their children's lives vs. her own career. I would only consider myself a feminist in the most basic definition of the term--against discrimination based on gender. Since I really do find the most fulfillment as a wife and mother, I guess that makes me the antithesis of feminist by a more modern def.
As for being mistaken for being pregnant. . .yes, once at yoga someone asked me if I was but it was simply a case of mistaken identity (I hope!!!).
Oh goody. One of my most favorite topics :) This will probably be long ... so take a seat ...
Question 1:
My brand of feminism can be summed up in two words: choice and respect. I'd love to find a culture where women are given full freedom of choice and treated with respect. Women have had to fight for years to get to where they are in the US today. Feminism is no longer "needed" when women are given full freedom of choice and treated with full respect. I highly doubt that will ever happen...
What I mean by CHOICE is:
- right to vote
- access to education - FULL education
- who (and if!) to marry
- what to wear
- pursue ANY kind of career (SAHM and VP of US are both incredibly valid jobs for women)
- earn a salary comparable to what a man would make for the same effort
- ability to become or prevent pregnancy (although I am pro-life when it comes to abortion)
Even though it seems (to me at least) that it would be pretty hard to argue that women should be able to choose, discrimination against women is alive and well here and probably in every country in the world.
By RESPECT, I mean
- obviously treated with respect - i.e., lack of abuse
- honoring the choices of other women - even if we don't agree with them
I firmly believe you can be a stay at home mother AND be a feminist at the same time. I see absolutely no contradiction there.
Question 2:
What does a feminist look like? A woman who fights to protect the ability for other women to pursue their choices EVEN (and probably especially) when she doesn't necessarily choose the same for herself. I think this is where LDS people get into "trouble" with feminism. LDS believers tend to think there is one right way for a woman to live - or at least one ideal to strive for. My experience has been that LDS (as compared to the general public - or at least the ones I know!) tend to have a hard time accepting the different shades "right." (where "right" is defined between the Lord and the woman...).
Question 3:
Feminism in practice ... I think that is represented in how we treat each other - how sensitive are we? how judgmental (and vocal of our judgments) are we? how do we support everyone - even people in situations we wouldn't choose for ourselves? I think that is a very individual question and I hope I live it.
Question 4:
Is there any question I consider myself a feminist? LOL
Question 5:
No ... never been mistaken as pregnant...
I second everything Lyn said, my response would be pretty much verbatim.
As for Frieden, I think her definition of feminism is that one that most people think of when they think of a feminist. I also think that she had a lot of important things to say, especially for the time, but that she really missed the point, in the end.
As for the pregnancy question, I still look about five months pregnant. Okay, my baby is only three weeks old, but why does it linger longer after each child? I can't wait to start exercising. Try an ab class, you might be surprised how much it helps. BTW you look great! People might just be expecting that by now you would be pregnant again, and that is why you have been asked. I got lots of those kind of questions between Abby and Lucy and I was skinnier that I had been since I got married.
What great comments! Seriously, I'm loving these.
Okay--I consider myself a feminist, because I think feminism in its most pure form (sort of like the idealism behind communism) is gender equality. It's allowing women an equal opportunity in the workplace, it's honoring motherhood as a "real job," it's preventing spousal abuse and giving women the same rights we give to men (speaking of which, have you read Hillary Clinton's "Women's Rights are Human Rights?" That pretty much sums up why I consider myself a feminist).
However, I'm a little leery about actually BRANDING myself as a feminist, especially in the LDS culture. At BYU in particular, really yelling about how you're a feminist may ensure that you don't get tenure, since there have been so many problems of that ilk there (I'm thinking of the pro-abortion marches led by rampant feminist professors about 20 years ago).
So what it boils down to--I believe in feminism as supporting a woman's right to choose what she will make of her life. It's not placing women above men; it's giving women the same opportunities and choices that society gives to me.
And so I consider myself a stay-at-home mom, a semi-working mom, a faithful Mormon, and a feminist. There's my bundle of contradictions.
Oh, and yes, someone once asked me if I was pregnant. I was feeling sick that day, so I was wearing a sweater that was about 4 sizes too big, looking a little green, and this particular woman knew I'd been trying to get pregnant for about 3 months. So it was sort of justified--but I still went home feeling fat.
And have your abs split? One of my friends had that happen and the doctors told her that she would probably need surgery when she was done having children to sew all the muscles up again--she was TEENY--probably 110 pounds, but she always looked about 3 months pregnant because the muscles had torn from two babies.
I'm feeling lazy so I'm just gonna say that I pretty much agree with Rachael. I think the feminist movement of the 70s went too far trying to make women out as the SAME as men. We just aren't, but we are equal to them and deserve all the same opportunities. That said, I am so grateful for the feminists of the past that have given us the choices we have today. We have the choice to have a career or have a family or have both. I choose to focus my energy right now on family, and I am so grateful that is my choice, not just what society tells me I must do.
As for your last question-- I actually just had my 6 week check up and am only 1 pound more than what I weighed at my first prenatal appointment. BUT... my body is not the same! My tummy is super squishy and I can not wear some of my pre-pregnancy jeans. So I guess I'm going to have to lose more weight for that to happen and start doing crunches again. There is something about having babies that makes our abs never the same again. BUT, YOU really do look great from what I can tell!!! love you!
I'm jumping in because this thread is too good to resist. You might know I blog at a site called "Feminist Mormon Housewives," so this is a subject dear to my heart. First of all, I ditto Lyn and Arlynda! Now I'll give answers to your questions:
Q: What does feminism mean to you?
While I think the ideas presented by Friedan and the other early feminists might seems sort of outdated, they definitely paved the way for the "choice and respect" feminism that Lyn describes. So the history has its place, and the practice of men and women working for equal and respectful treatment for both women and men (who sometimes get the unintended backlash of all of our bra burning, LOL) should be something we all strive for.
Q: How would you describe a feminist?
There are as many definitions of feminism as there are people (men and women) who ascribe to being feminist.
Q: Is feminism in practice the same as it is by definition?
If you use Lyn's definition of choice and respect (which I think is a great one) then I think it is.
Q: Do you consider yourself a feminist? Heck, yeah! A diaper-changing, toilet-scrubbing, stay-at-home feminist who is so glad she has the choice to do those things!
Q: Has anyone ever mistaken you to be pregnant when you weren't?
Yep. When Bryce was about 10 months old, I was in an elevator, leaning up against the wall with him on my hip, and a stranger asked me when my baby was due. Right after Annie was born I went into a store to buy a sleeper for her and someone asked me the same thing. Not fun times, I tell ya.
Good grief. How could anyone think you're pregnant? Honestly, that's so absurd. That is SO not a question to ask unless someone's abdomen is protruding many many inches beyond their bust...which yours is not. I on the other hand clearly have reason to be more the candidate for that question. Though thankfully I have not been asked. (It helps telling people I can't get pregnant for a year...) :)
I too am feeling lazy about an in depth response to feminism Qs. Really I don't know what feminism means to me. I've never looked it up, never read about it either. In my brain when I think "feminism" I picture women toting "let us vote" signs. I think of feminists as those who want equal rights, opportunities, and respect as men. I think of women who want their voice to be heard just as loud and clear as men. By my definition, YES I consider myself a feminist. Hm. Not sure about practice and definition.
OK, so I think all of these comments are really interesting, but here's a question: what woman doesn't want choice and respect? Wouldn't that make every woman a feminist?
Whenever I've heard the word feminist, my mind conjures up images of anti-skirt wearing, pro-abortion supporting, anti-anything to do with the traditional woman's role type of women.
I don't know. I guess every group has their radicals.
I think choice and respect are great. I totally want that too. What I wonder about are the women (who may or may not be feminists, I don't know) who try so hard to be equal to men that they loose or forget who they really are. We are women! We are supposed to be different from them! Men and women are supposed to complement each other. That's the divine design.
I'm all for equality for women, but I don't want it possible for my daughter to be drafted like a boy if the draft ever comes back. Is it really fair of me to feel that way?
Mel - I think you're right...every woman does want choice and respect. I find there are two distinct camps of women, though - the ones who are willing to respect alternate choices and the ones who are critical or judgmental of other choices. Would I consider the latter group feminists? Not really - even though they want choice and respect for themselves, they have blinders on to everyone else.
Of course women want to be respected for their choices. I just think we're not so good at that part of it (especially in LDS circles).
I have thoroughly enjoyed reading all of these comments and thoughts and I'm going to just write a new post for a follow up. Thanks!
I am a little slow on the response and didn't read everyone’s comments - but to be honest i haven't thought much about feminism or being a feminist in a long time. I almost feel like it is past our generation or me.
I also went through a questionable time wondering what women's rights were and wanting to be equal - but I’m not so concerned with this anymore. I now really appreciate the differences between men and women and recognizing that having differences doesn't mean one is better/higher than the other. I know not everyone feels this way and i have had my fair share of men who don't respect me merely because i am a woman (they were quite open about it as well) but i really do feel that it is more their problem then it is mine - they just need to get a grip and come back to reality where men and woman are equal with opportunities, education and skills.
Not sure if this is what you were looking for - but that is my two cents. I don't know if this thought process makes me a feminist or not - well when i think of feminist i think of people who are overly defensive and always wanting men to respect them as a man - where i want to be respected as a woman.
Also - no i haven't ever been asked if i was pregnant - go figure :). Now here is a question along the same line in "single" world - Are you too picky with your choice of men - do you even want to be a mother? Seriously people - seriously - they just amaze me.
Things have been crazy here the last couple of days, I don't feel like I have the time to really form a comment that will do your profound questions justice! However, here are my abbreviated thoughts:
1)Feminism is being treated with respect. Not more or less because you are a woman, but because you are a contributing human who has many talents to offer.
2) A feminist is someone who is confused and thinks that in order to be a strong woman you have to be just like a man.
3) No. NO. Not at all.
4) I'm a feminist in my own definition, but not by definition of the actions of feminists in our society.
5) No one has mistaken me to be pregnant (*yet*) when I wasn't. Seriously, Afton, was the girl who asked you anorexic herself and just trying to take you down a peg since you are so dang skinny yourself?! Not that you look anorexic, I'm just saying - was she viewing you as competition? =) Anyway, you look great!
Thanks for a fun post as always!
I just posted my super long follow up, but just got Vic's and Alicia's comments. I agree with Vicki, the movement seems outdated, just a cause to have just to have, I sort of feel like that with other minority groups that keep fighting for imaginary discrimatory things, but then again, I'm not part of them, so who knows.
And Vicki, dumb question for the singles, agreed. Better be picky than end up with someone you wish you had been pickier with! And thanks Leashameesh, but no, she was just sincerely asking, I don't think the lady has a mean bone in her body. Bummer huh? :)
I love all my friends! You guys are all so cool and different and inspiring to me. I love seeing how you all embrace life and move in your own directions, it's so fun to watch and be a part of.
Hi Afton, it's been ages but I'm enjoying reading your blog! I've also enjoyed the debate about feminism, but I'd rather tell a couple of fat/pregnant stories. I spent a year in Taiwan as an English teacher, and I have to say that Asian people have completely different ideas about what is socially acceptable to say about a woman's weight. I was once told by a businessman of about 35 who was my student: 'My wife says you'd be very pretty if you were thinner'. Just how does one react to such a comment? (Grammatically beautiful, but still horribly offensive.) And then while teaching English in London, and in my fourth month of pregnancy, a female Thai student told me that I was looking 'fatter'. I replied that I was pregnant, and it turns out that she was trying to find a way to ask if I was, but ultimately chose the worst possible thing to say. I then had to teach a lesson about what you can and can't say to a woman in the west about their weight. Verdict: NEVER ask a woman if she's pregnant. If she is and hasn't told you, she may not want you to know yet. If she isn't, it's just a horrible thing to say.
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